Azhar Siddiqui  0:00  

Hi guys, our awesome guest today is Mr. Sean Dennin. I think co-owner, you can correct me if I'm wrong. At Acumen Legal Marketing, a digital marketing agency servicing the law firm niche. Is that correct? Sean? Maybe? 

Sean Dennin  0:17  

Yep. Yeah, my partners and I own Acumen together. 

Azhar Siddiqui  0:21  

Awesome! So, again you know, like the whole purpose of having this podcast is to anyone who's maybe even starting out their digital marketing agency, who are not where Sean is right now, you know, they can learn from what Sean's been doing, and hopefully get a breakthrough out of this as well. But before we jump into the nitty-gritty, I just quickly want to get the background story of Sean Dennin, and you know, where you're coming from. And, you know, I know, like building out businesses is not that easy, Sean, but maybe start out with your journey, you know, in the early days, what things you were doing, what kind of jobs were you taking? And then how did you decide to become a business owner? I think you're running another business besides that digital marketing agency as well, right? 

Sean Dennin  1:10  

Yes, yeah. So I have a larger business that we've had for 18 years now. So yeah, my journey has always been, I've always worked in legal technology. So within the legal field, when I first started out, I worked for another company, that was not mine, we used to travel around the country. And let's assume Apple wants to sue Samsung, right, like big litigation where there's going to be 100 lawyers living in a hotel for multiple months and things like that, that was my job, I would go on site, and I would support those large scale war rooms. So I was, you know, I think I set up war rooms and 41 states in the United States, I'd support it 1000s of attorneys over the years from that, so originally, I'm with its backgrounds and business finance. So it was like business finance. And it started into that got some great opportunities, it was a ground floor company, there was about four of us in a room, and was able to be an integral part in helping that scale. So about a $14 million a year company. And the challenge with that, though, was that I learned quickly that, you know, that's great, and you can make, you know, big fat paychecks and things like that along the way, but not having ownership in something that you're building, and you're scaling, you know, as a challenge, and I did have no ownership in that. So I'd say about eight years ago, I had done a lot of work with the company that with my partners, where I'm at now. And you know, they were just kind of starting out, they were scaling the business, a couple of lawyers actually. And, you know, they approached me and just said, Listen, you know, we saw that what you've done with other businesses, we'd like to bring you in, we'll make you a CEO, day one will make you an equal partner day one, and things like that, have to take a step back in compensation, right? Because when you're running a $14 million company, comes with some nice paychecks. So I had to, but you know, I just knew that for me personally, being more into the entrepreneurship side, and being able to grow my own business and being able to have that was more important to me than the compensation of time. And I think that's a thing for people to consider, right? Like, you know, everyone always looks at it as a linear thing. So, you know, it's like, well, if I were to, you know, leave my day job right now, and focus on my agency and things like that, I'm going to take a 30% reduction in pay, I can only afford to pay myself, that's something that everybody has to go through in the early phases of the business. You know, there are ways to do that. I mean, I like to tell people sometimes, you know, there are ways to utilize your skillsets. And one of the things that I did is I love doing business coaching and things like that.

So I found ways to supplement my income during that time. Fortunately, that's no longer an issue, we've been able to do a similar thing and scale precisely and do that. So Precise is a company that offers data collection services, and we help people present the evidence in a trial. So we go out, you know, company, someone's getting sued, someone got in a car accident, something like that. We'll collect all the data, push it through, and then we have trial consultants that go around the country and actually sit in the courtroom. So it's kind of like the psychology behind show Intel, as opposed to the lawyer just saying something. As they're saying something. We have the documents and things coming up on the screen behind them and doing that. So marketing has always been a passion of mine. So about four years ago, five years ago, at this point, I came across a company that was doing direct mail services for law firms and what they were doing, not in the sense of like their marketing or things like that, but more from a lead Let's take a DUI attorney, for example. Someone goes out on a Saturday night gets a DUI that hits the court dockets right away gets you to know, it gets filed into the system, we found ways to scrub all that data, bring it into a mailing house. And basically, a lot of people do this. So one of the only ways that you can do direct solicitation for people is through direct mail, right, because you can't pick up the phone and call there's a lot of laws when it comes to our lawyer can approach business and go marketing. So this is one of the ways that is allowed, had a nice margin to it. So I bought that company knowing that my plan was going to be to expand that into a full-service digital marketing agency, once my earnout period was done with the previous owners. So we did that. And then about two years ago, we converted it to a full-service marketing agency. So we still do the letter services. But we added in websites, Facebook funnels, pay-per-click, and really focused on local optimization. Because with our law firms, most of the people that we're working with our single office, maybe two offices, looking to dominate in a local market, not necessarily like a national. 

Azhar Siddiqui  6:12  

That's an exciting journey, man. And this first company, where you quit your job, and you came on board as a CEO, how long ago was this one? 

Sean Dennin  6:22  

That was about eight years ago, like I said, I've been on the ground floor of that company. So I still have a good relationship with the owner. And I gave a six-month transition period to them. And you know, it was a tough decision. It was a tough decision, for sure. But I just knew that from my passion and what I wanted to do, and you know, that next level of growth and everything like that wasn't going to come from within that I couldn't help, you know, we could have kept growing that company and I left. You know, people thought I was crazy when I did it. Right. My father, I'll never forget, like the conversation I had with my father who was, you know, a very disciplined he 47 years in the same company maintenance man, you know, and he's just looking at me like, how could you possibly be walking away from this, this is amazing. more money than I ever made in my career, right? I explained to him that, you know, money is not always my personal thing, is I don't seek money. I seek freedom. That's only something that I've looked for. And you know, running a $14 million company as an employee, you don't have very much freedom, 70 hours a week, missing my kid's first birthday party, things like that. That just really showed me it. Fortunately, at a young age, some people don't learn this lesson till they're 55. And, you know, later in life, but fortunately, I was fortunate to learn that young age and do what I did.

Azhar Siddiqui  7:49  

And that's an amazing story. And my brother, actually, he's a co-founder with me on the RepStack side. And you know, he was at the vice president level at JPMorgan Chase. He recently resigned from that company. And he's full-time onboard with us now. So I know that it's a huge decision.

And I can definitely relate to the conversation you would have had with your father, because, you know, my father is very similar to that as well. I think they want stability for their children and family. And, you know, they're like, you know, what's going to happen and things like that. But at the end of the day, like, I think we get one opportunity one life. And if we're really passionate about which looks like, you're really you know, like you build out your career inside the legal arena, you went from your first company, and then the second was related to it. And now this digital marketing agency is also related to it. 

Sean Dennin  8:44  

Yeah, it just made sense to stay in legal obviously, you know, well known in the industry, contacts already, and things like that. So it's not the easiest nice to be in a market.  

Azhar Siddiqui  8:56  

It is man! Yeah, I agree with you. 

Sean Dennin  8:59  

And that's what I always joke about. It's like, you know, I like to be challenged. Let's say we were just recently talking about the 75 hard challenges that I finished and everything. It's just who I am as a person, I like to constantly challenge myself. So I remember even coming into the Seven Figure Agency, which is member mentors, and now you know that one of the first things was like, Are you sure you want to do legal like you understand the challenges, but now, it's been great.

Azhar Siddiqui  9:28  

Well, that's exciting, man. So coming on to your digital marketing agency, it's been almost four years since you've been running this business. Maybe give us some idea about how many clients you have? If you want to maybe share your revenue where you're at in that particular agency right now. 

Sean Dennin  9:47  

Yeah, we've, you know, between the two both sides now, we've been able to scale it over a million dollars when you factor in the letter revenue the mailing side as well. I'd say in about two years' time, we've been able to scale from zero. And when I mean zero, when I signed up for the Seven Figure Agency, I didn't really know what packages, we were going to offer what we were doing, like I was starting from square one, we had no clients, no testimonials, no anything across the board. So that was a little bit difficult, you know, in the very beginning to get the first couple clients and figure out what we wanted to specialize in and services and things like that. But now, we've been fortunate to have a really good retention rate. I also, you know, was basically essentially starting and scaling the agency during COVID. Right, so I complicated things a little bit as well. But, now I'm happy, you know, let's say we're, you know, right around $50,000 a month in recurring revenue, just on the digital side, for that business.

Azhar Siddiqui  10:52  

 Awesome. And then you just mentioned the Seven Figure Agency, you know, obviously, that's where you and I met as well, how important is it like to sign up for a coaching program to help you grow? Does it look like it helped you out? I know, I can speak to it, I took our agency from zero to, you know, almost 1.5 million right now in 14 months. So maybe speak to that if it's important or not?

Sean Dennin  11:18  

Oh, absolutely. So it's you know, for me, it was the blueprint. So the blueprint and the connections, you know, when you, when you come into a group into a mastermind or something like that, you have the ability to learn a lot. So when I came into it, you know, number one, the first thing I would say is, regardless of your success, I mean, you know, if we're talking like annual revenue and size and things like that, I mean, my other companies probably triple or quadruple, where we are on the digital marketing side, and where, where even the standard owner is in the Seven Figure agency, right? So the first thing that I committed to myself when I came in was just to be really humble. This is a new space, I might be a business owner, that scaled multi-million dollar, you know, agency, or companies and things like that, but I hadn't done that digital marketing space, right. So the first thing I came in was just, you know, humbled myself, and knew that I could just learn from everybody that I interact with, right, every person that I talked to, from the coaches down to the mentors, down to the peers that are in the group down to the people that are having the same struggles as you. So I'd say, from that standpoint, and you know, this isn't the first I've had a couple of other startups that I used to own a Mixed Martial Art School up in Philadelphia, just a couple other businesses that I've started up and sold and things like that. And, you know, out of the gate, I was profitable year one in doing that, right. So that's not something that happens, typically, your first couple years in the business, you're gonna struggle, you're gonna barely hit that profit a lot. And you're gonna, you know, and things like that. And it's just an accelerator for me. So having that blueprint, being able to look at what other people have done, tweak it and implement it for me, I look at it and it's, it's just by the day I signed up, I probably shave 12 to 18 months off of the learning curve of what I would have needed to do to get my agency to where it is right now. 

Azhar Siddiqui  13:15  

Yeah, I totally agree with that having a coach and a blueprint available to just start executing from day one. It's a game-changer. And I can't like I ran my agency, still running it for the last 13 years. And I can't believe I waited till 2020 to sign up for the Seven Figure Agency program. And it's been obviously a life changer for me and so many other people who are now involved with us. So yeah, amazing insights there, Sean. So just changing gear a little bit, I kind of want to find out about the day-to-day operations and how you're attracting clients. I know the legal arena is not that easy. How are you pulling in using your marketing department? And then how do you're closing deals using your sales? And then how you're servicing them with your account managers and things like that? 

Sean Dennin  14:04  

Yeah, so we'll start with the service side, we've found that that having a mix of, you know, using some really top-level outsource resources, that are in the group that really specialize within certain things, right, like, you know, there's you can build a team and you can try to do something, but when someone's doing something on a scale, and they just have a system for it and things like that. I'll use your company as an example. I tried to hire multiple, everyone would say come in, hire a virtual assistant, do this, do that, right. So I did the bill on Fiverr and go to different places and try to find somebody and try to bring them in and do that. You know, the challenge with that is I don't have the experience with that. I've never worked with a virtual assistant I don't know the type of training that I should do. I don't know the type of time management things that I should do. I don't know any of that. Right. I've always worked with you know, solely US-based employees and employees, quite frankly, they're in my own office, I've always had brick and mortar at large brick and mortar up in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and Melbourne here. So that's the world that I came from. Right? And I was used to that. So what I found in the very beginning was I was making a lot of mistakes. But you know, going to somebody like you guys and just saying, Hey, this is what I need. This is what I'm looking for this is the role this is this.

And then having somebody who has experience in that selection that find that so similar, I mean, I can hire somebody to create GMB posts and do things or I can work with a company that does it for you know, 1000 customers across the entire United States and has a better system. Right? So, but that's one of my recommendations would be to really decide what it is that you're really good at, do a lot of that and then try to have everybody else do everything else. Right? So for me, I'm really good at sales always have been, it's something that, you know, there are some people in the group that I've learned from as well that are just some rock stars when it comes to sales. But if I, you know, had to pinpoint one thing that I can do really well is sell for sure. So that's been my goal with the agency is to really have me focus on the sales aspect. Use VAs to generate leads generate some interest and things like that. But honestly, once it comes to the sales side, that goes directly to me, I still handle that piece within our agency. This year, I'm hiring a salesperson for the start of 2022. But I really wanted to, I'm a big believer as well. And in that, it's really difficult to bring in a salesperson, hire them, tell them what they're supposed to do, when I've never personally done it myself. I always find that if I been in there, you know, my coaching can be more effective, my guidance can be more effective everything if I've experienced and lived it. So part of my two years of acumen is making sure that I've worn every hat, I've done the account management side, I've done the liaison with the vendor side, the operations, things like that, to really get a sense of who the person is that I need in that role. And then I go out and target and find somebody for that role. So on the operation side, we have a good team in place with some account managers and everything happening across the board and happy customers. So I was able to pivot off of that really just focus on the sales side. But, you know, our next area of growth, I mean, my time is still split, right. And that's where my challenge is. I joke with Josh sometimes I'm like, you know, I'll be a salesman for Acumen one day. And then you know, in my free time, we'll run the $4 million company that we have on the side. So yeah, so that's, that's been a challenge. But again, I know the process now I know what's worked, I've been able to have some success with it. So now I'm ready to target someone. 

Azhar Siddiqui  17:47  

And then on the sales side, your team is booking these like discovery calls or strategy sessions on your calendar, and then you go on, and you take it from step one to step two, or you just come in towards the end of the sales call. 

Sean Dennin  18:03  

Yeah, as of right now. I've been doing it from the time, you know, the VA gets a hit. Honestly, we've been doing a lot of stuff on LinkedIn, a lot of direct messages and things like that. So that's the other side where, you know, one of the things that people teach is you really have to be positioned yourself as an authority, right. And I think the challenge is sometimes people come in, and they'll run, you know, one webinar and make four posts and create one little video and they're like, this authority play doesn't work, right. And I made a mistake right out of the gate. And it's like, it's not that it's all about the consistency. So for me, one of the biggest differences, once I brought my VA in, was just knowing that if I get busy and something requires my attention and my larger company or something, you know, and it's happened, right, I mean, with COVID It was crazy. I mean, when all the courtrooms closed I literally lost one paper $2 million a year as soon as all the courtrooms closed when COVID hit. So lots of other things that we had to deal with on that side of the business. But what I love about that is that no matter what, like right now, as we're talking about this, one of my webinars is being cut up into about six different video clips. They're gonna be based on eels, you know, reels and Instagram and quite frankly, a lot of things that I don't even know about. I like to think I'm young, but you know, when it comes to trans stuff, and everything like that, it's some of the stuff is just way over my head, and quite frankly, don't have time to learn it.

So being able to be the content creator, push it down, and you know, even LinkedIn, I mean, making sure that 25 you know, every single day, what's cool for me is I don't know, I honestly don't know the last time I logged into LinkedIn, but I do know that every day I got an email that says 25 people have connected with you that and then really you know my VA will send we love like to do very conversational stuff, I coach people in the group to tell them do not just try to sell somebody out of the gate, right? That's like the kiss of death in any favor. And you know, just a tip for everybody I know, that's partially what we're trying to do is help other marketing agencies and things like that. Please do not. And I'm going to stress this do not make a connection request and then throw a paragraph in there about what it is that you want to sell me and this that the other thing as a CEO precise, I get that about 50 times a day. And I know how ineffective it is because it's like, I always say this, like if we, you know if I did that to you on LinkedIn, right? You're gonna look at me like, Okay, here's this salesperson. Imagine if we were face to face. And imagine if I walked up to you. And I said, Hi, I'm Sean Azhar. How are you? And before you can even tell me your name, I'm like, literally like, okay, so what I can do for you as a digital marketer? Like, you'd be like, dude, this guy's insane, right? Like why? Phone call somebody I think, you know? So I always tell people that I'm like, Listen, your social interactions, your outreach, all that kind of stuff. Think about that that person is directly in front of you. And then would you use the same tactic? If you walked up at a cocktail reception and you happen to meet that person? How would you do that? No, the answer is, is that I'd walk up and I'd say, Hey, sir, how are you? So what part of the country are you from? Oh, you know, I'm from California. Oh, yeah, that's nice. I love it. Actually, I've done right, we're gonna build rapport, we're gonna have some conversations, apply the same thing to your cold outreach. So my VA does a really great job of that. And honestly, you know, we initiate the conversations, we get them started. And then once it takes a turn to a certain point, I get a notification, hey, come in, open up your inbox. It's flagged, it's ready for me, I know exactly what I need to respond to. And then I pick up the conversation at that point. And then so. 

Azhar Siddiqui  21:53  

Awesome process, man. And I think Josh Nelson talks about this, we've got, you know, push versus pull strategy on when it comes down to your marketing and sales. And it looks like you're doing that with your webinars, how often are you doing your webinars right now? 

Sean Dennin  22:08  

I'd say we did them quarterly last year, I have a goal to ramp that up to at least six for this coming year. And I tried to make mine really topical. So one of the webinars I did was specifically targeting bankruptcy attorneys and bankruptcy filings have been down by over 50% across the nation. The reason being is that, you know, when everyone's when all the stays on mortgages and things like that happen, people weren't in danger of bankruptcy, they weren't in need of it, things like that. But because of everything that's happened in the country in the past few years, there is a wave that's going to be coming right, like banks need their money from the government. It's coming. 

Azhar Siddiqui  22:50  

Yeah! 

Sean Dennin  22:51  

What we were doing is we were showing people how you can correlate and match up, you know, search volume, and more search volume related to informative search volumes. So things like, what's the difference between chapter 13 and chapter 11? And chapter seven bankruptcy? And what's this? And what's that? Right.

And,when you see the correlate, you know, when you see that search volume starts to increase and go up, you're gonna see a direct relation to the intense searches, right? So that'll go from, you know, what's the difference to this to the following month is bankruptcy attorney near me and things like that, right. So we were showing people that, you know, if you really want to predict the wave, you want to be looking at Google search volume data and actual data, not just like, Well, we think in another three months, it should start to hit like, right? But are you gonna, you know, hedge your bet on an I think, or I feel versus, you know, actually look at in your market. Because listen, different states have opened up in different ways. So what might work in Texas is not going to work in New York, and it's not going to work in you know, what I mean? So, you know, it's really getting strategic with that. And I found the more, you know, informative, you can make, I mean, anyone can run a webinar and just, you know, say, hey, you know, you should do Google ads and do Facebook ads and things like that, you know, they've heard that story before, but really related to your niche, you know, niches are phenomenal. I think Josh is spot on with, you know, in marketing space, the riches is within niches and things like that all little slogans and stuff. But the challenge is I think sometimes people ignore the fact that they really should know something about their niche. I'm not an attorney, my business partner is an attorney. But if I get on the phone call with an attorney, I can speak to what their languages right, I know enough about the industry to be able to say things to say, yeah, like, well, you know, it's interesting that you know, chapter 11 filings are way down, that probably is directly related to the fact that people don't have to use their pay their mortgages right now and that they're not behind on their mortgages and they're not at risk of foreclosing on a house because there's a stay on foreclosures right. Right there. They're like, wow, this guy Understand, I'm not a bankruptcy attorney, I don't understand I just know enough about it to relate to them that because listen, if you want to say that you specialize in something, I mean, I wouldn't just come in and just say I specialize in plumber marketing. I don't know anything about plumbing. Right. So, you know, really know your niche, if you want to claim specialty in it.

Azhar Siddiqui  25:18  

Yeah, that niche thing alone is such a huge value bomb, Sean, thanks for sharing that because, and, you know, I'm a testament to that every single successful agency owner that I need know, people like you, they specialize in a particular niche, because you know, they have some kind of relevance to that field as you did from the start of your career inside the legal arena, it just became so easy for you. But what it really allows you to do is that you just open up the entire market, usually a digital marketing agency, if you're just doing websites, here and there, and project work and some marketing, you're really stuck to your city, maybe Philadelphia somewhere in California, but this allows you to open up to the entire the US and Canadian market systemize your process like what you've been doing inside your agency, and just turn it up and start selling across the states. And I love that we've been able to, this is the reason because we're only focused on digital marketing agencies only focused on three key roles. And that's all we're doing right now. So the more you drill down, I think, the better it gets for your business. So amazing insights, Sean, I really appreciate it. I would like to end this with more of a philosophy question here. What's the why behind it? Why did you start out with your businesses or the entrepreneur's journey? What are you trying to get out of it in terms of your life? I think you shed some light on it earlier on. But maybe if you can just talk about that a little bit with us. 

Sean Dennin  26:49  

Yeah, absolutely. I'm not I'm never afraid to share this story. Because I think that it can help other people. But I'm the classic person who fell into the trap of just focusing on your business and letting everything else go. Five years ago, I was over 300 pounds, I had 40% body fat, I had horrible blood pressure, I was a walking heart attack.

I didn't do any exercise, right, I was so focused on I need to run this company and run this business and, and do those types of things. And really, that was you know, back as a result of the 70 hours a week I was working running the $14 million a year company. So you've relationships with my children, I have three sons. You know, just everything across the board was really suffering. And I realized that it was like, you know, this isn't any way to live life. I don't care how many, I don't care what class my Mercedes is, and I don't care what you know if I'm not going to be here to enjoy this and another 10 years with my sons and watch them grow and watch them develop and see them play. And you know, what's a good plan, you know, youth lacrosse, when I will never get to see them play at the college level or something like that, right. So all that stuff became a huge eye-opener for me. And like I said, I've always been a seeker of freedom. I really love the fact that you know, if my son has an important game at four o'clock, I'm going to be there, right? One way or the other, I'm going to be there. And that's been the biggest change my oldest son's first birthday, the first kick in the teeth happened about 14 years ago when my oldest son was turning one. And I got called by a client and I had the right was a Sunday I had the run into the office promised my wife, I'll be home soon, I promise I'll be here and blah, blah, blah. And I just remember walking in the door after everyone had left the party house was a mess. It looked like a blast and everything. And my son was sound asleep on the couch, holding on to a gift that I bought for him, but I didn't physically give him right. And that moment just kicked me It kicked me really, really hard. Unfortunately, I didn't take the steps that I needed to at that time, I continue down a tough path, but I call it the dark space of entrepreneurship. I think we've all been there. In the sense of like, you're just working so hard and you know, you feel like you're not and everything and my recommendation everybody is just to recognize that early and make sure that you know we all talk about work-life balance and things like that, make sure you're designing whatever you're doing to set you up for that. Because if from the beginning if you're designing that every customer is going to have your cell phone number and they're gonna call you and they're gonna do this and they're gonna do that right? It's not gonna work like you're gonna get to a point where you're gonna achieve success and you're gonna be making some decent money and you're gonna be like wow, cool like I'd love to go skiing in Aspen next week but you will never go skiing in Aspen next week I promise you. So yeah, I mean, I would say you know, from a philosophy standpoint, decide what is your why. My why became there is nothing more important to me than being a father. My children are the most important thing in my life, being there for them doing with them and things like that. And I realized that the life that I was designing and that I was setting myself up for was going to be, I was going to be the dad that likes checks in with the family, right? Where it's like, Hey, give me a report on the oh, they made the lacrosse team they did this and now I've created a life where I will never miss their tryout for lacrosse. I know if they made the team because I was at the tryout when they went to try it out. 

Azhar Siddiqui  30:24  

That's awesome. 

Sean Dennin  30:26  

Yeah, philosophy standpoint. I would say that's my why 

Azhar Siddiqui  30:29  

Extremely heartwarming. I don't think I've heard this before. There are different reasons why people start businesses. But is so important to have this locked in before you start out your journey. Just so that you know, every time you're just getting off the track, you can just look back at why you started out the journey and you know, kind of realign yourself. And kudos to you, man, I know you have three amazing boys and you're doing everything. Right. And it doesn't happen from day one.

But, really impressive journey. Sean, I really appreciate you doing this for me. And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this will get some amazing value out of this, and hopefully help them in the right direction for their digital marketing agencies. Appreciate it, man. 

Sean Dennin  31:15 

Now, it's my pleasure. And like I said, Man, I'm a big believer in helping people who have helped me. You didn't ask me to do this. But I'm going to put a shameless plug-in here at the end for RepStack. You guys have been phenomenal. And like I said, just to know that right now, during this call, I have a proposal that I'm going to go close right after this for $6,000 a month FYI. And just to know that all that stuff's happening, and contents going to be put up for the next week. And people are literally having conversations with me on LinkedIn that I'm not even aware of right now. And you know, all that kind of stuff has just been amazing. So kudos to you guys. You guys rapidly scaled. I was having scaled several businesses in my career I was, you know, even a little bit concerned for your guys' scale, right? Like, it's a wild ride right there, but you guys did an excellent job of I think you really focused on bringing in the resources that you need it. You managed to scale well. So kudos to you guys. You know, I wish you guys nothing but success. And I'll be calling you for another VA probably in another couple of months. 

Azhar Siddiqui  32:22  

Appreciate it, Sean. Thanks a lot, man.